The spiritual materialism bit reminds me of a “grand realization” that I had a few years ago: it doesn’t matter how much of that stuff you experience, mostly people still care predominately about getting laid 😂
The grotty share-house crew eating acid... just trying to get laid.
The bush doof crowd vaping dmt on the dancefloor... trying to get laid.
The man-bun and flowing white skirt New Age mescaline users, drinking out of jars and running Tantric workshops... just trying to get laid.
The Amazonian currandero, speaking with a thousand years of ancestors as they serve the brew... trying to get laid.
The monks and nuns with their 227+ Vinaya rules... trying to avoid getting laid 😂
Perhaps this is testimony to the great, creative, generative impulse that resides in all life. I dunno... seems like biology mostly trumps spiritual experience.
I have realized that having an absurdist view helps tremendously as I am less surprised about the things that happen.
From another absurdist...
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” - Robert Anton Wilson
Yes! --but there are a couple of things you seem to know that I can't know: "we know that fundamentally there is no one who can be burned" - there is still pain, even if no "thing" feels it. "We come to recognise that it is all God’s extraordinary guesswork" - don't know this, either. Don't know what it is, but it seems to be happening. Enjoyed your work!
Beautiful rendering, indeed. Thank you! An event such as you describe carries all the hallmarks of what is variously called grasping- --realization- in this case, chemically induced)- legit; the messiness of the human is, however, within and of the broth, so really, there is no coming down; the soup of clarity includes its own limitless limitations, flies, mosquitoes, carpet snakes, and thorny bushes incorporated as well. It’s called chaos. Or life. Nothing to it; beauty is strong and provides enough energy to throw rocks at the gods. (preferably of the heavy pointy cutting edges kind)
Tremendous resonance for me. Both with where I’ve been and possibly, going. I need to re-read this soon to see what else I get out of it. Do you have other recommended reading on living w/mystical experiences (interpreting, discussing, integrating, etc)? 🙏🏾 for taking the time to craft this and to share!
Andrew Huberman warns that just because marijuana is "natural" does not mean that you should fall for the fallacy that it's good for you. THC binds to certain receptors that cause our brains to fire in all sorts of tingly ways that are rather pleasant to most people.
We know that too much of a good thing can be a problem. Marijuana addiction is a real thing. We also have found out that it causes mitochondrial damage and causes all sorts of issues. There's a price to pay.
Few people will argue that LSD is natural, even though it obviously is derived from a strain of ergot. The receptors in our brains respond in such beautiful ways. It causes people to have all sorts of insights.
I would argue that the insight that LSD gives is that it triggers the receptors for awe. It's the eureka drug because it's bypassing the usual learning mechanisms and simply gives you the reward that you receive that is normally hard won.
Every account that I've read about trips usually talk about how much they learned. But when you look at the majority of the reports, it's all about how people find that everyone is connected and love is the answer. The ineffable experience can't be explained with words because it's not words that they're experiencing. They're simply high as fuck and their neural networks are misfiring, making connections that are not usually obvious.
My guess is that for the vast majority of recreational trippers, they don't learn anything new. For those that need a mystical experience, like those dying of cancer, the drug is going to give you what you want in the same way that popping MDMA will give you the heightened love that you need.
Disclaimer: I've tried all these compounds and then some. I've entered the first jhana. So please don't take my tone as being too confrontational. It's my experience and hypothesis after many trips and visions, with integration sessions after them.
interesting. i’m not sure i’ll ever get to the bottom of sorting out the “truths” here, but i do feel sorry that this has been your experience. thx for sharing your perspective
No need to feel sorry. I'm simply sharing my experience.
I've been thinking further about this. Looking at James Fadiman's data on microdosing, it makes sense to me now that having a long lasting drug that will slightly skew all perceptions to be on the positive side makes sense.
It also gave me the insight into how vision works. Obviously, it's neural networks all the way down. When we look at an optical illusion, there's some post-processing that happens. When you take a hallucinogen, there's an extra couple of molecules inside the processing networks that give an extra boost. This leads to a feedback loop that takes the image you saw and continues processing it, leading to the visuals we see coming out of "deep dream" AI videos.
All that leads to such pretty visions and it's usually such a pleasant experience. The positive effects last for days afterwards; my experience with trips has mostly left me feeling like the world is better for having done it.
So please don't worry about paying sympathy. I didn't speak about the positives because that's already covered elsewhere. And I ended my last comment with a disclaimer to explain that I'm not opposed, I'm simply experienced.
That was lovely!
The spiritual materialism bit reminds me of a “grand realization” that I had a few years ago: it doesn’t matter how much of that stuff you experience, mostly people still care predominately about getting laid 😂
The grotty share-house crew eating acid... just trying to get laid.
The bush doof crowd vaping dmt on the dancefloor... trying to get laid.
The man-bun and flowing white skirt New Age mescaline users, drinking out of jars and running Tantric workshops... just trying to get laid.
The Amazonian currandero, speaking with a thousand years of ancestors as they serve the brew... trying to get laid.
The monks and nuns with their 227+ Vinaya rules... trying to avoid getting laid 😂
Perhaps this is testimony to the great, creative, generative impulse that resides in all life. I dunno... seems like biology mostly trumps spiritual experience.
Chop wood, carry water 🙏🏽❤️
Haha, brilliant!
I have realized that having an absurdist view helps tremendously as I am less surprised about the things that happen.
From another absurdist...
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” - Robert Anton Wilson
Reuben, that was marvelous, thank you.
Thank you, John
Yes! --but there are a couple of things you seem to know that I can't know: "we know that fundamentally there is no one who can be burned" - there is still pain, even if no "thing" feels it. "We come to recognise that it is all God’s extraordinary guesswork" - don't know this, either. Don't know what it is, but it seems to be happening. Enjoyed your work!
Beautiful rendering, indeed. Thank you! An event such as you describe carries all the hallmarks of what is variously called grasping- --realization- in this case, chemically induced)- legit; the messiness of the human is, however, within and of the broth, so really, there is no coming down; the soup of clarity includes its own limitless limitations, flies, mosquitoes, carpet snakes, and thorny bushes incorporated as well. It’s called chaos. Or life. Nothing to it; beauty is strong and provides enough energy to throw rocks at the gods. (preferably of the heavy pointy cutting edges kind)
Tremendous resonance for me. Both with where I’ve been and possibly, going. I need to re-read this soon to see what else I get out of it. Do you have other recommended reading on living w/mystical experiences (interpreting, discussing, integrating, etc)? 🙏🏾 for taking the time to craft this and to share!
Andrew Huberman warns that just because marijuana is "natural" does not mean that you should fall for the fallacy that it's good for you. THC binds to certain receptors that cause our brains to fire in all sorts of tingly ways that are rather pleasant to most people.
We know that too much of a good thing can be a problem. Marijuana addiction is a real thing. We also have found out that it causes mitochondrial damage and causes all sorts of issues. There's a price to pay.
Few people will argue that LSD is natural, even though it obviously is derived from a strain of ergot. The receptors in our brains respond in such beautiful ways. It causes people to have all sorts of insights.
I would argue that the insight that LSD gives is that it triggers the receptors for awe. It's the eureka drug because it's bypassing the usual learning mechanisms and simply gives you the reward that you receive that is normally hard won.
Every account that I've read about trips usually talk about how much they learned. But when you look at the majority of the reports, it's all about how people find that everyone is connected and love is the answer. The ineffable experience can't be explained with words because it's not words that they're experiencing. They're simply high as fuck and their neural networks are misfiring, making connections that are not usually obvious.
My guess is that for the vast majority of recreational trippers, they don't learn anything new. For those that need a mystical experience, like those dying of cancer, the drug is going to give you what you want in the same way that popping MDMA will give you the heightened love that you need.
Disclaimer: I've tried all these compounds and then some. I've entered the first jhana. So please don't take my tone as being too confrontational. It's my experience and hypothesis after many trips and visions, with integration sessions after them.
interesting. i’m not sure i’ll ever get to the bottom of sorting out the “truths” here, but i do feel sorry that this has been your experience. thx for sharing your perspective
No need to feel sorry. I'm simply sharing my experience.
I've been thinking further about this. Looking at James Fadiman's data on microdosing, it makes sense to me now that having a long lasting drug that will slightly skew all perceptions to be on the positive side makes sense.
It also gave me the insight into how vision works. Obviously, it's neural networks all the way down. When we look at an optical illusion, there's some post-processing that happens. When you take a hallucinogen, there's an extra couple of molecules inside the processing networks that give an extra boost. This leads to a feedback loop that takes the image you saw and continues processing it, leading to the visuals we see coming out of "deep dream" AI videos.
All that leads to such pretty visions and it's usually such a pleasant experience. The positive effects last for days afterwards; my experience with trips has mostly left me feeling like the world is better for having done it.
So please don't worry about paying sympathy. I didn't speak about the positives because that's already covered elsewhere. And I ended my last comment with a disclaimer to explain that I'm not opposed, I'm simply experienced.